plug-in for inversion and color correction of pro8

[Konton]

Since the majority of people want to use Super 8mm to transfer to DV for editing, and then a high-quality output to DVD, I think the use of negative film is going to become more of an issue. I mean we all want to film in low-light conditions.

So what editing programs do most people use? Premiere 6.0? Final Cut 3.0? Avid Express DV 2.0? is there a simple plugin we could make, or between all of us determine the best setting for inversion and color correction of negative super 8mm?

I admit, I'm not much of a color corrector. And I know that the settings do vary. But color correct is a big issue and doing it digitally is probably the easiest way to go.

How do most of you color correct in digital? Do you pull a frame from your clip, put it into photoshop, invert and color correct there, then use that information to repeat the process in the video editing program? I'm curious.


------------------
Konton the Grey

[mattias]

in fcp3 you simply select which color should be considered white, so it's a simple matter of inverting and selecting the blue color of the base as white. if you have a few clear frames in your clip, you can even use the dropper tool. i use fcp 1.2 though, since i got it really cheap, and there i use a script i wrote myself, which simply performs an invert and some white balancing at the same time.

so, this really works, but i must say i never really liked the results that much. you lose *a lot* of dynamic range because of the orange mask, which does increase grain as well as video noise. a blue filter or the white balancing on your video camera should do most of the job, and an analog color corrector box most of the rest. only fine tuning should be done in the computer imho.

/matt

[Konton]

I remember you talking before about the orange mask. Is that a filter you use on the camera? Why? What is it supposed to achieve? Well thanks for all the other info. I'm going to have to think about all of this in my transfer system.

------------------
Konton the Grey

[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Konton:
I remember you talking before about the orange mask. Is that a filter you use on the camera? Why? What is it supposed to achieve?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

An orange masking was incorporated into color negative years ago to combat the excessive blue build up related to the daylight spectrum. It gave the labs more control over color.

When you go to transfer negative, you should use a camera with manual white balance. You merely put a piece of processed, unexposed color neg (which is nothing but pure orange masking) in front of the light source and white balance. This will make the camera see the orange masking as white. Then you can invert the colors and correct as desired.

I should mention that using a proc amp like the Videonics Video Equalizer or the MX-1 or a Sony box is handy when placed down stream from the output of the computer, going to a monitor during digitizing. That will allow you to see a positive image for setting exposure judgements even though you are still recording a negative image in the computer. Then when you invert the colors in Premier (or whatever program you choose) the density will be correct. Otherwise, transferring negative without benefit of such a device means you are flying blind, in terms of exposure. It is very hard to judge exposure on a negative image without seeing a real time positive image.

My two cents.....

Roger

------------------
Roger Evans
MovieStuff
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff.html

[crimsonson]

The best way to color correct is always get the material in the NLE in good condition. Garbage in - Garbage out.

TBC first then in NLE
I color correct using waveform and vectorscope with the a plugin or the basic color tool in the NLE.

there are several plugins out there for color correction. Ranging from ~$150 - several thousands of dollars.
Vixen
Color Finesse
Video Finesse
Sapphire
Color Suite
Color Fix

Then there are plugins that simulate film look for video footage. These are great too since it has a lot of color controls built in.
Cinelook and FilmFX are popular. The new version of GenArt's Sapphire has a subset of controls for color correction

I use Avid DV 2 (waitng for 3). I have not inverted Super 8 negatives in an NLE.

------------------

[Konton]

Thanks for the information. I'll have to try this out. Are we talking about for an orange filter 85 or 85b?

I have a Sony XV-C700 for color correcting with, but I thought it would be better to do that digitally rather than use the C700.

------------------
Konton the Grey

[MovieStuff]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Courier, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Konton:
Thanks for the information. I'll have to try this out. Are we talking about for an orange filter 85 or 85b?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no orange filter involved. None. The orange masking we are talking about is built into the negative. If you've shot some 35mm print film and held the negatives up to the light, you can clearly see the orange base or "masking" that is on the negative. That is the orange we are talking about. Again, there is no orange filter used. In fact, just the opposite. You want to use the manual white balance of the video camera to get RID of the orange tint in the negative so that all you're left with is inverted colors.

Try this experiment: Take one of your 35mm negatives and put it in a slide mount and project the negative on a white piece of paper about 8.5 x 11. Use your video camera to copy it but first white balance to a piece of unexposed processed negative that I'm sure is on the strip of negatives near one end or the other. Just hold the blank orange negative in front of the raw projector light and white balance. Then insert your "slide" of the color negative you want to copy. After committing it to the computer, then invert it in Premier or what ever program you are using. That experiment will give you a good idea of what's involved in transferring negative.

Roger

------------------
Roger Evans
MovieStuff
http://www.afterimagephoto.tv/moviestuff.html

[Matt Pacini]

There's a good discussion of this lately on the cinematography.com website forum.
The guy from Kodak chips in some information.
It will explain the whole thing as far as the masking goes.

Matt Pacini

------------------